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	<title>Comments on: Faith and Mysticism PART III: The Arrival</title>
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	<link>http://brokentelegraph.com/2008/06/05/faith-and-mysticism-the-arrival/</link>
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		<title>By: Tana</title>
		<link>http://brokentelegraph.com/2008/06/05/faith-and-mysticism-the-arrival/#comment-2564</link>
		<dc:creator>Tana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2011 18:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic. Much to think about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic. Much to think about.</p>
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		<title>By: The Broken Telegraph</title>
		<link>http://brokentelegraph.com/2008/06/05/faith-and-mysticism-the-arrival/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>The Broken Telegraph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentelegraph.wordpress.com/?p=73#comment-87</guid>
		<description>it&#039;s one of those things worth meditating on often. Otherwise I get a whiff of self-importance, and I&#039;m suddenly back trying to be Super Christian.

-ian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s one of those things worth meditating on often. Otherwise I get a whiff of self-importance, and I&#8217;m suddenly back trying to be Super Christian.</p>
<p>-ian</p>
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		<title>By: Hilda&#62;^..^</title>
		<link>http://brokentelegraph.com/2008/06/05/faith-and-mysticism-the-arrival/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Hilda&#62;^..^</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentelegraph.wordpress.com/?p=73#comment-86</guid>
		<description>...&#039;it’s not our comprehension, but rather God’s grace, that saves&#039;...

This is it Ian. This is it. No matter how much one studies or reads or wants or attends &#039;church&#039;, this is it.

Paul says and I say that if salvation could be obtained by works then where would grace be? Jesus would have died for nothing then.

...I have mercy on whom I have mercy. I have compassion on whom I have compassion...

Its his choice, its his time...its him.

&gt;^..^&lt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8217;it’s not our comprehension, but rather God’s grace, that saves&#8217;&#8230;</p>
<p>This is it Ian. This is it. No matter how much one studies or reads or wants or attends &#8216;church&#8217;, this is it.</p>
<p>Paul says and I say that if salvation could be obtained by works then where would grace be? Jesus would have died for nothing then.</p>
<p>&#8230;I have mercy on whom I have mercy. I have compassion on whom I have compassion&#8230;</p>
<p>Its his choice, its his time&#8230;its him.</p>
<p>&gt;^..^&lt;</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://brokentelegraph.com/2008/06/05/faith-and-mysticism-the-arrival/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentelegraph.wordpress.com/?p=73#comment-85</guid>
		<description>Never too much noise. You are right. I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.
Like Heather mentioned with the busy and overly busy schedules, I allow myself to be trapped inside a pinball machine and need to stop and do the work. I am willing to do this.

&quot;there has to be a jumping off point, where you pack up your doubt and skepticism and bring it along for the ride, but allow Christ to lead and your faith to wrestle with the doubt and skepticism.&quot;

I appreciate these words you share with me Ian. Probably why I tapped your shoulder in the first place. Will be sending more on this soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never too much noise. You are right. I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.<br />
Like Heather mentioned with the busy and overly busy schedules, I allow myself to be trapped inside a pinball machine and need to stop and do the work. I am willing to do this.</p>
<p>&#8220;there has to be a jumping off point, where you pack up your doubt and skepticism and bring it along for the ride, but allow Christ to lead and your faith to wrestle with the doubt and skepticism.&#8221;</p>
<p>I appreciate these words you share with me Ian. Probably why I tapped your shoulder in the first place. Will be sending more on this soon.</p>
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		<title>By: The Broken Telegraph</title>
		<link>http://brokentelegraph.com/2008/06/05/faith-and-mysticism-the-arrival/#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>The Broken Telegraph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 02:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brokentelegraph.wordpress.com/?p=73#comment-84</guid>
		<description>Yo Beth- how goes?

There are many who don&#039;t feel it either- and many of those are Christians, and others are not. So there are Christians who &quot;feel&quot; it, and Christians who don&#039;t, and others who reject Christ&#039;s claims and yet also feel, and others still who both reject Christ and feel nothing related to spiritual confirmation. I think my point is that we shouldn&#039;t rely on feelings, because you can arrive at any conclusion with or without them, and they might not even be right.

I can only speak for me but my faith in Jesus became real the moment I realized that I was lost without him in every capacity, and saw no other lasting hope under the sun outside of that. That was a few years ago. I saw the limits of myself and I was insufficient to save me. At that time, and for the first time, I wanted salvation, grace, forgiveness and renewal, instead of being told that I needed it by some preacher. Years later, I have seen Jesus rescue, walk with me and lead me out of that crap (and there&#039;s plenty more that we&#039;re working on). Before that I had been a bigtime religious hypocrit (and probably still am from time to time). The world is full of insight, and also short-range truth, and temporary confirmation and nice vibes and good intentions, but for me those things were all lacking punch (and still do when compared to the intellectual and revolutionary words and life of Jesus).

As a great pastor once said, the gospel becomes real the moment you accept that Jesus died &quot;also for you.&quot; When it goes from a fine phrase to a personal realization. I get that now. It&#039;s not a scheme or a set of rules to follow or to force on others, it&#039;s a saving grace for those who want, or even need it. If you don&#039;t want it, then you don&#039;t want it. I hope that doesn&#039;t come off the wrong way, I am only saying that we can&#039;t coax ourselves into God&#039;s presence. I am not suggesting that you shouldn&#039;t wrestle and question- there is always room for that (and we couldn&#039;t hide it anyway) but there has to be a jumping off point, where you pack up your doubt and skepticism and bring it along for the ride, but allow Christ to lead and your faith to wrestle with the doubt and skepticism.

And it&#039;s not just an eternal insurance plan like some dorky evangelicals say- I may have made it sound similar and I don&#039;t mean to. It&#039;s the belief that Jesus is who he says he is and a desire to be transformed by him and for his purpose. A true self denial.

Some will read that and think I&#039;m insane. I accept that. They&#039;ll tell you that I&#039;m fabricating all of this for my own peace of mind (or worse) and that you should do any number of other things besides what I&#039;m suggesting. To me, it&#039;s that reversal- sortof the opposite of these positive thinking speakers around the world that tell you just to &quot;keep at it&quot; like a hamster on a wheel, or the dangerous advice that suggests &quot;find your own path&quot; as if there&#039;s no possible damage and consequence at our fingertips.

I firmly believe that everyone should make their decision based on their reaction to reading the life and words of Christ. I&#039;m not implying that you haven&#039;t, but to me that&#039;s the purest way to see where one stands- including myself when I travel too far away from my faith. Do the words of Christ make you intrigued, conflicted, bored, angry...and proceed from there.

I don&#039;t really feel equipped to talk to you about this being that I have such a limited perspective, but I hope that was somehow helpful. We&#039;ve had great talks on and off for a long time and I hope I&#039;m not adding more noise to your thoughts. I can completely understand the hesitation, skepticism, confusion- I&#039;m loaded with that stuff too.  It is a freeing thing to want Jesus, and to accept one day that it&#039;s not our comprehension, but rather God&#039;s grace, that saves. That was my lightswitch.

We can keep this talk going here or you can shoot me an email, or just keep throwing these thoughts at me over time. I&#039;ll do my best to answer.

-ian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yo Beth- how goes?</p>
<p>There are many who don&#8217;t feel it either- and many of those are Christians, and others are not. So there are Christians who &#8220;feel&#8221; it, and Christians who don&#8217;t, and others who reject Christ&#8217;s claims and yet also feel, and others still who both reject Christ and feel nothing related to spiritual confirmation. I think my point is that we shouldn&#8217;t rely on feelings, because you can arrive at any conclusion with or without them, and they might not even be right.</p>
<p>I can only speak for me but my faith in Jesus became real the moment I realized that I was lost without him in every capacity, and saw no other lasting hope under the sun outside of that. That was a few years ago. I saw the limits of myself and I was insufficient to save me. At that time, and for the first time, I wanted salvation, grace, forgiveness and renewal, instead of being told that I needed it by some preacher. Years later, I have seen Jesus rescue, walk with me and lead me out of that crap (and there&#8217;s plenty more that we&#8217;re working on). Before that I had been a bigtime religious hypocrit (and probably still am from time to time). The world is full of insight, and also short-range truth, and temporary confirmation and nice vibes and good intentions, but for me those things were all lacking punch (and still do when compared to the intellectual and revolutionary words and life of Jesus).</p>
<p>As a great pastor once said, the gospel becomes real the moment you accept that Jesus died &#8220;also for you.&#8221; When it goes from a fine phrase to a personal realization. I get that now. It&#8217;s not a scheme or a set of rules to follow or to force on others, it&#8217;s a saving grace for those who want, or even need it. If you don&#8217;t want it, then you don&#8217;t want it. I hope that doesn&#8217;t come off the wrong way, I am only saying that we can&#8217;t coax ourselves into God&#8217;s presence. I am not suggesting that you shouldn&#8217;t wrestle and question- there is always room for that (and we couldn&#8217;t hide it anyway) but there has to be a jumping off point, where you pack up your doubt and skepticism and bring it along for the ride, but allow Christ to lead and your faith to wrestle with the doubt and skepticism.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s not just an eternal insurance plan like some dorky evangelicals say- I may have made it sound similar and I don&#8217;t mean to. It&#8217;s the belief that Jesus is who he says he is and a desire to be transformed by him and for his purpose. A true self denial.</p>
<p>Some will read that and think I&#8217;m insane. I accept that. They&#8217;ll tell you that I&#8217;m fabricating all of this for my own peace of mind (or worse) and that you should do any number of other things besides what I&#8217;m suggesting. To me, it&#8217;s that reversal- sortof the opposite of these positive thinking speakers around the world that tell you just to &#8220;keep at it&#8221; like a hamster on a wheel, or the dangerous advice that suggests &#8220;find your own path&#8221; as if there&#8217;s no possible damage and consequence at our fingertips.</p>
<p>I firmly believe that everyone should make their decision based on their reaction to reading the life and words of Christ. I&#8217;m not implying that you haven&#8217;t, but to me that&#8217;s the purest way to see where one stands- including myself when I travel too far away from my faith. Do the words of Christ make you intrigued, conflicted, bored, angry&#8230;and proceed from there.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really feel equipped to talk to you about this being that I have such a limited perspective, but I hope that was somehow helpful. We&#8217;ve had great talks on and off for a long time and I hope I&#8217;m not adding more noise to your thoughts. I can completely understand the hesitation, skepticism, confusion- I&#8217;m loaded with that stuff too.  It is a freeing thing to want Jesus, and to accept one day that it&#8217;s not our comprehension, but rather God&#8217;s grace, that saves. That was my lightswitch.</p>
<p>We can keep this talk going here or you can shoot me an email, or just keep throwing these thoughts at me over time. I&#8217;ll do my best to answer.</p>
<p>-ian</p>
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